2 From WL Craig vs Pyle: On Perceiving the Transcendental and Non-materialistic, Non-naturalistic

Responding to WL Craig vs Andrew Pyle (moral argument-rape- below) Mentat1231 8 years ago Here here! It's absolutely amazing, the number of appeals to mystery, appeals to authority (usually "ad verecundiam", since they're not even the authorities in the right field), and appeals to emotion and incredulity that I read from the typical YouTube atheist. And the published "new atheists" are no better (Richard Dawkins' arguments in his best-seller are a bad joke). It's just astounding.... 1 Green Peacemst Green Peacemst 12 minutes ago (edited) There are additional fields that could contribute here, as Pyle´s Ganesh ploy suggests. However, Craig´s standard is more than adequate to address Pyle´s reliance on fallacy. He´s clearly articulate in the science, and scientists are usually unable to grasp that this argument is not scientific. "Science" is a term that misrepresents the field, which was natural philosophy, and might be called scientific philosophy. The very origins of modern scientific philosophy are sociohistorically Christian, and for specific psychosocial and cultural reasons. Those reasons, the dynamic interaction amongst monasteries, churches, and political and economic authorities, involve special ingredients in Christian culture that make Western Civilization a leading influence in globalization and having established the UN community of human rights, and now sustainability. The monk Thomas of Aquinas, in fact, was taught by Albert Magnus as part of the founding shift of monastic schools to Universities. You couldn´t have had the scientist Galileo without Christian monastic schools and Universities with Thomas of Aquinas, and they all demonstrated the West´s exceptional capacity for social cooperating that led to the Reformation, Scientific Revolution, Enlightenment sequence and legacy. The issue of emergentism would help contextualize the transcendental cause that the First Cause/Kalam Cosmological addresses, but Pyle shows little inkling that science itself is not reality, that absolute truth is philosophical, the actual nature of scientific philosophy. That involves logical coherence and correspondence with reality, with logical coherence involving conceptual analysis, not scientific experimentation. Social Studies actually involves empirical evidence for the additional signficance of Jesus´ legacy, and shamanic practices, no less, for additional indications like a Historical Sociological argument. &&& peterplaysbass 8 years ago 1:39:07 "breaking the audience's glass jaw by using words like 'rape' ..." This student questions the moral argument is an example of what I posted above. It's a good question, but Craig's answer is sufficient. 2 Green Peacemst Green Peacemst 10 minutes ago (edited) Good point. The subtlety involves the fact that Jesus actually taught 2 key loving Commandments that also refer back to Moses. It is the definition of loving morality that serves as the foundation stone for any victim of violations, and perpetrator of violations. None of us wants to be violated, but amongst humanity it has become common, and has existed since the evolution of human symbolic culture. It has appeared in important ways elsewhere, with Buddha and perhaps Confucius as examples. And they are important for Christians "seeking the Kingdom of Heaven" to "go and learn..." Jesus´ legacy has had unprecedented achievements, and requires further clarity around the basis of ethics and morality. It requires a shift from church doctrine to the perception of Jesus´ legacy in UN human rights and sustainability for spiritual practice. Jesus´ role is specific and secure in its empirical place. In University-based society, it can achieve the integrity that can then feedback to churches, with synergies like Gandhi demonstrated. He read the Gita and the Bible, and more, as he demonstrated significantly the power of Jesus´ love. The later question about salvation without knowing Jesus relates to this. Shamans were achieving greater consciousness of God, and had opportunities to appreciate the power of the dynamics of Jesus´ loving Commandments, as the holy Buddha did in his culture. Scientific philosophy gives us the knowledge that things have to be done in cause and effect processes ultimately, with spiritual practice one key to sustaining our conscious contact with God and the salvation of integrity. The tragedy of infanticide amongst the Greeks and Romans, and deaths like Archimedes´ involve the burden of natural existence and efforts to improve it or just have dominators. Jesus´ special role is not without its limitations and needs for its own development. FDR´s and Eleanor´s vision of the UN and human rights have followed University-based society´s legacy to create amazing new levels of opportunities to accomplish Jesus´ teaching "go and learn...", not least of all.